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Why Listen:

When I was in the Navy, I’m not sure how much I respected Admirals. I certainly feared them - I got that instilled in me at the Naval Academy. But I think I was caught up in this mindset of: it’s inevitable that I get promoted from O-1 to O-2, and from O-2 to O-3… so it can’t be that hard to make it to flag rank. In the ten years since I left the Navy, my respect for senior officers and flag rank officers has grown exponentially. I’ve seen how difficult it can be to reach the top of any organization - civilian, government or military. And I admire the determination, talent, and intelligence required to achieve these pinnacle leadership echelons.

Today’s interview only served to reinforce that respect. Admiral Mullen served as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under both President Bush and President Obama. I was fascinated to hear what it is like to work at this level and the principles of leadership that helped Admiral Mullen achieve success. We also talked about leadership of the Beyond the Uniform audience - how we, as leaders, can look out for the men and women we served with, and how we can pay forward the benefits we’ve experienced in our careers.

About Admiral Mullen:

Admiral Michael Mullen is a retired United States Navy admiral, who served as the 17th Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to both President Bush and President Obama. Previously, he served as the Navy's 28th Chief of Naval Operations, and was only the third officer in the Navy's history to be appointed to four different four-star assignments: Commander, U.S. Naval Forces Europe, Commander Allied Joint Force Command Naples, and the 32nd Vice Chief of Naval Operations. He retired from the Navy after over 42 years of service.

Fast Company has called Admiral Mullen “not just a new model for military officers-and a new kind of business titan-but also a case study in 21st Century leadership.” Since retiring from the Navy, Mullen has joined the boards of General Motors, Sprint and the Bloomberg Family Foundation. He has taught at the Woodrow Wilson School of International and Public Affairs at Princeton University, and now teaches at the United States Naval Academy. He is also known for his efforts on behalf of service members, veterans and their families. He is renowned for his role in dismantling “don’t ask, don’t tell” and allowing gay service members to serve openly.

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Partners:

• Have you ever wondered how you could become a more effective and balanced leader? Or how to find a team with a high degree of trust that performs at a level you’re accustomed to? Check out The Leadership Podcast where they study what makes the best leaders tick - including many who have moved "beyond the uniform" to reach new levels of success and fulfillment.

Transcript & Time Stamps:

4:25

Joining me today from Monterey, CA is Admiral Michael Mullin. Is there any additional biographical information you’d like to share with listeners?

I have a great family. I just spent 11 days babysitting my grandkids while my son and daughter-in-law took a trip to Italy. 

One thing I share with young people is that at my age, there are only a few things to focus on - friends, family, and faith. If you’re starting that at this point, it can be pretty tough. So if those are a priority for you, you need to tend to those throughout your life. 

7:10

How can people keep friends, family, and faith at the center of their lives?

When I left the military, I made a conscious decision not to run anything full time. In many ways, my family was short-changed throughout my career. When I transitioned, I wanted at least 50% of my time to be spent with family. I knew I wouldn’t be able to do that if I was running something full-time. I’ve been out of the military for nine years now and I’ve had to learn to say ‘no’ during that time when colleagues offered me great positions that would take too much time away from my family.

I’ve always tried to invest in youth and for the past few years, I’ve been a teacher. I taught an international relations course at Princeton University and am now teaching leadership at the Naval Academy. Outside of my family, teaching is the most enjoyable part of my life. 

12:30

What was it like serving as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff?

Prior to being appointed, I had been the Chief of Naval Operations for two years.  I had requested a meeting with Bob Gates who was the Secretary of Defense. Gates had been in that position for six months at that time. I walked into his office and sat down at a table next to his desk. I realized that he was going to ask me to be Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. It was a surprise to be asked. 

I served during Vietnam and many of those scars stayed with me. I immediately went to work studying veterans of the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars and assisting them with homlessness and other issues that they faced. Being Chairman was a ridiculously difficult position but I deeply enjoyed it.

17:40

What did a typical day look like for you?

I grew up playing sports and love being at the gym. When I was Chairman, the only time available for me to workout was 5-6:30 am. Typically I was in the office from 7am to 7pm. I traveled about 40% of the time. I did a lot of travel to Afghanistan to understand what we were doing wrong there. 

In the Chairman position, I had virtually no control of my schedule. But the Joint Chiefs staff was the greatest staff I've ever worked for. When I took the position, it was 2007 during the surge in Iraq. Then a couple years later, the Obama Administration took over and we had to adjust to that. 

By the time I took the Chairman position, I had already served on Capitol Hill for many years so I had built several valuable relationships that I was then able to call upon as Chairman. It was always my goal to let the men and women serving in the military know that I was a Chairman that cared about them and their wellbeing. Over the course of my career, I’ve learned how important it is to put the people beneath you in positions to succeed and to make them and their families a priority. 

I grew up in the movie business so I really understand the importance of media and communications. I remember doing an all-hands in Afghanistan. There was about to be a government shutdown and one of the soldiers asked if they were going to get paid. I told them I wasn’t sure. That exchange was videotaped and was eventually shown to members of Congress. That video pushed them to pass an action that stated that all members of the military would get paid even if there was a government shutdown. 

30:05

How can listeners support junior enlisted members?

I’ve been working in the veterans space for many years now. As a society, we don’t always pay a lot of attention to what happens in the veterans space. The VA system can often be extremely cumbersome. Over the past few years, I’ve tried to support initiatives that made the VA more effective. 

Over time, I’ve learned how tough transitioning out of the military can be. Particularly for soldiers that have been in combat, life after the military can be very difficult. I’ve never been concerned that officers will land on their feet outside the military. They have at least a Bachelor’s degree and extensive leadership experience. What I’ve tried to focus more on is helping enlisted members successfully transition. 

What I encourage companies to do is to help veterans understand their organization. Once they do, they will bring all the hardwork and dedication they demonstrated in the military to that role and organization. 

A few years ago, I was giving a talk to veterans at a company in Silicon Valley. I noticed that there were no former enlisted members in the room. I thought to myself, ‘Where are the enlisted? Where are the men and women that help the officers succeed?’

The biggest strength veterans have when transitioning is the military and veteran network. Don’t be afraid to reach out to those around you to ask for help. 

39:20

Is there anything else you’d like to share?

It was a precious privilege to serve in the military with the people that I did. It was a really special group.