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Why Listen:
Morgan talks about how he made the difficult decision to leave the military after 12 years of service, and how he was pulled into government service. He talks about his day job with the US Department of Defense. However, we spend the bulk of our time talking about the non-profit version of his day job, the Defense Entrepreneurs Forum. I found this organization, and Morgan’s journey with it, extremely compelling. It’s a great look at how the military and non-military community can work together to be better than the sum of just their parts. It’s also compelling to see how a side pursuit can lead to more passion and productivity in one’s life.

About Morgan:
Morgan Plummer is the Executive Director of The Defense Entrepreneurs Forum, which inspires, connects and empowers people to promote a culture of innovation in the U.S. national security community. He also works as Managing Director of the National Security Innovation Network.

He started out at Michigan State University, after which he served in the Army for 12 years with multiple U.S. units and once as an advisor to the Iraqi Army with 19A Armor. He holds a Master’s Degree in Policy Management from Georgetown University.

Our Sponsor: 

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• Audible is offering one FREE audio book to Beyond the Uniform listeners. You can claim this offer here, and see a list of books recommended by my guests at BeyondTheUniform.io/books

Selected Resources: 

• Info about Morgan

  • LinkedIn

  • Twitter

  • Defense Entrepreneurs Forum

  • Wikipedia

• Books

  • Duty: Memoirs of a Secretary at War

  • Wisdom of Crowds

  • Lean Startup - trite and cliche, but such a great book for adopting a entrepreneur mindset. Entrepreneurship isn’t what you do - it’s about having a hypothesis, testing it, and applying it against users trying to impact

  • First 90 Days - The Stars Model - having the right person in the right kind of environment in the right time.

Transcript & Time Stamps:

4:50

Joining me today from Alexandria, VA is Morgan Plummer. Morgan Plummer is the Executive Director of The Defense Entrepreneurs Forum, which inspires, connects and empowers people to promote a culture of innovation in the U.S. national security community. He also works as Managing Director of the National Security Innovation Network.

He started out at Michigan State University, after which he served in the Army for 12 years with multiple U.S. units and once as an advisor to the Iraqi Army with 19A Armor. He holds a Master’s Degree in Policy Management from Georgetown University.

5:40

You transitioned out of the military at 12 years. How did you evaluate that decision?

I got my degree at Georgetown and went on to do an assignment at the Pentagon. I was a staffer for Ash Carter. The Department of Defense was going under a budget review. Deputy Secretary Carter was leading that effort so I ended up getting involved in that. During that time, I had people come to me encouraging me to transition out of the military and work in politics. It was a difficult choice because I really love wearing the uniform. But at the end of the day, I wanted to take the opportunity to affect public policy.

My last job in the Army was as a Battalion Operations Officer. We were in between deployments and we were starting to worry about making dental appointments and medical readiness. That didn’t really appeal to me so that also pushed me toward getting out.

10:00

How would you describe what you do for a living?

I’m a paid employee of the Department of Defense but a huge part of my day is with the Defense Entrepreneurs Forum. During my day job at the  Security Innovation Network, we work to improve our relationships with early stage ventures and academias.

The Defense Entrepreneurs Forum is basically the non-profit version of my day job. They are working to try to break down barriers between the cultures of government and entrepreneurship.

12:10

How do you go about bridging that gap between the public and private sector?

You need to put people in the same room discussing common topics and solving the same problems. The relationships that will be built in that kind of a situation is extremely valuable.

It’s not just conversation, it really goes a step further. People from those groups are actually trying to solve a problem together.  

13:50

What advice would you give to someone that might be interested in working in these spaces?

The most compelling part of entrepreneurship is a sense of passion. It’s small teams of people that are working together on a common project.

There’s a lot of overlap between being in the military and working in entrepreneurship. If it’s something that interests you, I really recommend you giving it a shot.

Make sure you’re avoiding jargon and acronym filled sentences. The DoD culture is very tribal and so is the world of entrepreneurship. But it’s a different kind of culture and tribe and you need to be willing to make that switch.

I think there’s a greater tolerance for personal achievement in entrepreneurship. That can be an adjustment for military members that are used to focusing exclusively on the team.

17:40

How can people support the work that you’re doing with the Defense Entrepreneurs Forum?

DEF is an all-volunteer organization. The only way that we survive is when people are willing to volunteer with us. The best way to reach us is through our website. Membership is free and there are many ways for people to get involved.

We have an annual conference that is focused on problem solving. We have break out sessions that get people together to talk about problems people are facing and how they can be solved.

We also have a DEFx which is a play off TEDx. We highlight the contributions various people are making to break down barriers between entrepreneurship and the public sector.

At our events, we don’t spend much time in front of PowerPoints. It’s a lot of collaboration and getting together to solve problems.

21:55

Can you give an example of some of those problems?

When Ash Carter fleeted up into the Secretary of Defense job, he wanted to fundamentally change talent management. At the time, the under Secretary for Personnel turned to DEF to consider new ideas for talent management. Through many workshops and conferences, our community got together and put together various recommendations.

There are also many entrepreneurs out there that have no interest in working with the DoD because they don’t want to be in the business of killing people. DEF is able to provide a non-threatening communication point for these entrepreneurs to help them bridge the gap between their organization and the Department of Defense.

25:30

I would imagine your schedule is very intense. How do you manage that?

At the risk of sounding trite, I think the key is that you need to make time for yourself. Otherwise, other things will creep in. That means different things to different people but you need to make the effort to schedule time for yourself.

If you haven’t achieved work/life harmony, you’re not going to be adding value in your personal or professional life.

Guarding that time for yourself is part of your job. If that’s what you need to be more productive for the people around you, making sure that happens is part of your job.

28:45

Do you have any advice for someone that is having trouble deciding whether they want to go into entrepreneurship or government work?

Everybody’s story is different. I will say, though, that there is value in doing something different. Even if you want to eventually work for the government,  the government will be better if you step away for a time to get a different perspective and then go back into the government. I’ve seen a lot of people that have gone in and out of the government many times, and overall they are great performers and have valuable perspective share.

32:00

You worked in the Obama Administration. What was that like?

Brad Carson’s wife Julie and I were in Ash Carter’s office together. We become friends that way and then she introduced me to Brad who I also got along with very well. Then Brad kind of pulled me along with him into the Obama Administration.

When I started at Personnel & Readiness, my role was somewhere between a a Chief of Staff and a Principal Deputy. We had over $7B in funding and 3200 employees scattered throughout the world. We had a super broad diversity of policy profile. We were responsible for DoD schools and health care policies as well as member pensions. You had to have the ability to dive into a topic really quickly and gather as much information you could before making a recommendation. It was the best job I had until I took this job.

There were some dark days but it was absolutely the crucible I needed to go through to prove to myself that I could do it. We were really able to get some work done as well. But now I know what that looks like and feels like in a way I didn’t before.

I would advise people to listen to yourself and trust your gut as far as what career and job will work for you.

39:10

What are the biggest challenges facing our country right now?

I think the greatest danger that we face is that we feel certain about what the future will hold. One of my favorite quotes is from Bob Gates who said that along the long line of “Yes’s” the US has given to various national security issues, many of those “Yes’s” have turned out to be wrong.

So you have to think about building flexibility into our problem solving process. You have to have a community of problem solvers that is more heterogeneous than our government workers currently are. If you think about talent as being equally distributed across all races, genders, and backgrounds, it becomes problematic to see how homogeneous government employees tend to be. I think we have to build better intellectual diversity into our nation's problem solving.

We have to balance between planning and also being flexibility with the realities that arise as you go along.

44:20

Are there any resources you would recommend?

Lean Startup shares the idea that innovation is about having a measured hypothesis.

The First 90 Days is also terrific. I really liked the idea of having the right leadership in the right place at the right time.

45:50

Is there anything else you’d like to share with listeners?

DEF is about an organization that allows for many different perspectives. If you’re looking for people who want to roll up their sleeves and build a better world, DEF is for you.