BTU #200 - Black Hawk Down to Founder of Pinnacle Solutions (Mike Durant)

August 30, 2018 Justin Nassiri

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Why Listen:
Mike had an incredible military career of 22 years, where he received the Purple Heart and where is exploits were chronicled in the movie, Black Hawk Down. His Civilian career has been equally impressive. He is the author of the book, In the Company of Heroes, which details the story after Black Hawk Down’s credits roll. He worked for six years and then started his own company, Pinnacle Solutions, which has nearly 400 employees and over $70M in revenue. This is a great interview for aspiring military Veteran entrepreneurs, as well as those who are interested in the Government Contracting industry.

About Mike:
Mike is President & CEO of Pinnacle Solutions, which provides a wide variety of products and services to NASA, the Department of Defense and industry partners including aircraft and weapon system Original Equipment Manufacturers. In ten years, Pinnacle has grown from a home office-based startup to over 375 employees and more than 70 subcontractor personnel operating in fourteen U.S. and international locations, with over $70M in revenue.

He was a member of the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment (Night Stalkers) as a Blackhawk helicopter Flight Lead and Instructor Pilot. He retired from the Army as a Chief Warrant Officer 4 Master Aviator after participating in combat operations Prime Chance, Just Cause, Desert Storm, and Gothic Serpent, during which he was shot down and held prisoner in 1993 after a raid in Somalia, which was chronicled in the movie, Blackhawk Down. His awards include the Distinguished Service Medal, Distinguished Flying Cross with Oak Leaf Cluster, Bronze Star with Valor Device and the Purple Heart. He was inducted into the Army Aviation Association of America Hall of Fame in 2008.

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Selected Resources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Durant

https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/the-real-black-hawk-down-pilot-rescue

Transcript & Time Stamps:

2:10

Joining me today from Huntsville, Alabama is Mike Durant. Mike is President & CEO of Pinnacle Solutions, which provides a wide variety of products and services to NASA, the Department of Defense and industry partners including aircraft and weapon system Original Equipment Manufacturers. In ten years, Pinnacle has grown from a home office-based startup to over 375 employees and more than 70 subcontractor personnel operating in fourteen U.S. and international locations, with over $70M in revenue.

4:10

Is there anything else you’d like to share about your background?

We’re coming up on the 25th anniversary of the Blackhawk Down mission. I think there was a period of time right after the movie came out when nearly every member of the military had familiarity with the story. And that’s still largely true but it has been a long time. Overall, we were happy with the movie. Any time Hollywood sets out to re-tell a true story, there is anxiety on the part of the participants. They want to know that it captures the realism of the story.

5:35

I remember watching it in the Naval Academy. I’m happy to hear that you feel like overall it accurately depicted the events.

I think that even in true stories, Hollywood tries to paint a hyper-heroic pictures of the events that happened. It’s not really the case in the Blackhawk Down story. The movie is an accurate portrayal of the courage and strength in that time.

6:44

What inspired you to write the book In the Company of Heroes?

When the movie came out, I waited several months to go see it. I wasn’t sure what that experience would be like for me. I went with one friend to go see it. The movie ends with me in captivity. There’s a short blurb at the end that talks about what had happened in the real story. The focus of the movie was in the right place but there’s also an untold story here which was my experience in captivity.

I had taken some notes during this time and realized that if I was going to do something with the story, that was the time. So within a couple weeks, I wrote the first couple chapters of the book. I sent that out to a few publishers and realized there was interest in the book. So that was how that all came about.

8:20

What advice would you give to someone that wants to be an author?

It’s a lot of work - more than I would have imagined. I was working full-time at the time I wrote my book. It took me about 14 months to get the project done and that was working on it everyday.

When I finally released the book and I was going out on the book tour. One was with Hannity & Colmes. I remember driving to the interview asking people who Hannity & Colmes were because during the process of writing the book, I had been heads down focused on the project. I hadn’t been watching TV at all.

When writing a book today, it’s hard to find that secret sauce that publishers are interested in. You have figure out if you can put a story together that there’s a market for. You also need to think about what you want to accomplish with your writing - whether it’s just a personal passion or if it’s something you really want to sell.

11:10

You left the military after 22 years of service. What advice would you give to others that are in a similar position?

Don’t wait until the last minute to think about it. It’s a big transition. There’s not a moment that I specifically remember in my life. But I remember having my retirement letter in front of me trying to decide whether or not I wanted to turn it in. Because I loved my job and I had a great experience.

After you leave the military, even after over 20 years, you have a whole other career ahead of you. So you need to have a plan in place for how you want to approach your post-military career.

For me, I wanted to complete my degree while I was still in. There are so many great programs out there so definitely take advantage of that. Now that I own my own company, when I go to hire people, the first thing I look at is whether or not a candidate’s experience and education matches the job they are applying for. So if you have the opportunity to work on your education while you’re still in the military, go for it.

The other thing I did was more luck than wisdom. I go involved in the procurement side while I was still in the military. There’s such a huge machine that exists behind the scene to keep the military churning. There are many jobs in these areas such as logistics, human resources, and procurement.

Some people will want to completely separate when they leave the military and not get a job in government at all. This is completely fine. Just remember the discipline and work ethic you learned in the military and bring that to your next position.

17:00

I’m sure that experience in procurement gave you a new perspective that has helped you throughout your career.

Don’t underestimate yourself. When you look at someone that has been in a field for a particular amount of time, they have a specific expertise in that field. But what they might not have is the work ethic, discipline, and culture that you have as a veteran.

It’s easier to teach people to do the technical part of the job rather than teach good character.

18:30

How did you start Pinnacle Solutions?

I retired after 22 years and got a job working in a government office and it wasn’t a good fit for me. Part of it was that I came from the Special Operations world where there was a lot of autonomy. I don’t thrive as much in jobs with more limited scope and lack of independence. After about 6 months, I knew that I wasn’t going to make a career out of that.

I got a call from a company that was interested in starting a business in Huntsville, AL. We reached an agreement and I opened up the office for them. It was like having my own business without having to invest my own capital in it. That company ended up being purchased by a large business. I stayed for three years after that. Although I didn’t really like that, I realized that there’s a reason big businesses are successful. There are set processes and effective documentation.

In 2008, I felt that I had seen business from many different angles. I felt like I had had many great experiences that would allow me to succeed as a business owner. I convinced my co-founder that he should come along with me. He had a great skill set that he brought to the table.

You do take risks when starting a business. I put my house up as collateral. But that’s what entrepreneurship is. You have to be willing to take risks and step out on the edge a little bit.

It hasn’t always been easy to do. It worked out in the end but there’s a fine line between success and failure. The more you can do to increase your chance of success, the better off you are for sure.

27:03

What advice would you give to someone interested in entrepreneurship regarding whether they should go right into owning their own business or whether they should take some time to work in corporate America and learn first before starting their own business?

I’m a big believer in following your heart and finding your passion. That gives you reason to get up in the morning. It redefines the word “work”.

The thing about it, though, is that there was a lot that I didn’t know about the complexities of finance and accounting with having my own company. Of all the things that I thought I understood, that area in particular is far more complex that I would have imagined. It’s a never ending learning process. You can’t ever get to the point in life where you’re not seeking self improvement and learning. Never lose that drive. Otherwise you’re on the decline.

31:00

Do you have any advice on the industry and job possibilities in government contracting?

It’s hard to generalize and characterize it all. In most cases, the experience that a veteran has might be suited for a specific role in government contracting. Your skillset as a military member can be very desired and in demand in government contracting.

33:50

Over 85% of employees at Pinnacle are veterans. Can you talk about some of the strengths and weaknesses you see in military candidates?

We’re a little bit unique because we are specifically focused on aerospace. Our largest contract with the Air Force is training KC-10 flight crews. So all of the people we hire to provide the training are former military. So it’s the technical expertise but also the personal characteristics, too, that many veterans bring to the table. They come to work on time and are dedicated to the mission. Many also have security clearances which is also huge.

36:11

As you look back on your entrepreneurial journey, what have been some of the more challenging times you’ve faced?

You have to have a different approach and mindset when you’re leading a company. I don’t have the technical expertise each one of my employees has. So I’ve had to learn how to lead. And I think you do that by being open with the people around you. I have great people working for me and we work together to come up with solutions. You have people depending on you to make good decisions. So there’s a lot of responsibility that comes with this. A lot of success or failure is on your shoulders.

From a company perspective, the biggest disappointments or failures have come when we thought we had a great shot at a contract and then didn’t end up getting it. And many of these contracts are very competitive, they have over 15 bids. So we’ve had to get better at thinking about exactly what the government is looking for from a particular contract. We go to great lengths to show exactly why we are right for that contract. And there have been times when we haven’t gotten that contract and it’s disappointing.

We number the opportunities we’re going after. I created opportunity #668 today. Some of those are enormous, others are not. But each one requires putting together a unique proposal and a strategy. It’s not something you just walk into without preparation.

41:00

Do you have any advice on building resilience?

I was asked a few years ago to provide a quote for a graduating class. The quote that came to mind was, “Don’t be afraid to fail”. If you really want to push the boundaries of what is possible for yourself, you have to fail.

I always use a quarterback as an example. I remember Peyton Manning had a game early in his career when he threw four interceptions. That’s tough because the fans aren’t happy, the coaches probably aren’t happy. Many of us would question if we were done. But for Peyton, he just re-committed himself to his profession and worked harder. Now we view him as one of the best quarterbacks of all time. He wasn’t afraid to fail. He had the confidence in his ability to fail and then get better.

If you really aspire to do something amazing, you cannot fear failure. You will never achieve your full potential without failure.

43:20

Is there anything else you’d like to share with our listeners?

One thing that comes to mind is work-life balance. In the military, you recruit individuals and retain families. It’s no different in the business world.

I could be the most successful business person in the world, working every day for 16 hours. But my family wouldn’t care, they would see it as a negative. So you have to find a way to be successful both in your professional life and your personal life. Your family helped get you to where you are. So you need to put just as much into your personal life as you do your professional life. I feel like personally I’ve been able to do pretty well with that. We’ve had people at Pinnacle that have struggled with that because they are so devoted to the company. But in the end they drive them self into the ground from working so hard. And that’s not good for them or for us.